New York Times: Unveiling the Cambodian Money Laundering Empire, the Secret Assembly Line Behind the Crypto Scam

By: blockbeats|2025/03/25 07:45:03
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Original Article Title: The Scammer's Manual: How to Launder Money and Get Away With It
Original Article Authors: Selam Gebrekidan, Joy Dong, The New York Times
Original Article Translation: Deep Tide TechFlow

Every few weeks, the night sky in Cambodia is lit up by fireworks. Scammers set off these fireworks to celebrate their latest "big score" scam.

As the fireworks burst in the sky, someone's life savings may have already vanished into thin air. The victim may have fallen for a fake online romance scam or invested in a bogus cryptocurrency exchange. Regardless of the form of the scam, the money has disappeared without a trace, caught up in a complex money laundering network that circulates billions of dollars at a dizzying speed.

The FBI, Chinese Ministry of Public Security, Interpol, and other agencies have tried to combat these scammers. They are often active on social media and dating apps, deceiving people into participating in fake financial schemes or other scams. Telecommunication companies have blocked phone numbers, and banks have issued numerous warnings.

However, this industry still persists stubbornly, with a highly efficient money laundering operation behind it. Unprepared victims around the world lose hundreds of billions of dollars each year, and these funds must be "cleaned" to conceal their criminal origins and ultimately flow into the legitimate economy. This money laundering system is like a hydra; when the government strikes it in one place, it reappears in another.

This underground world is elusive in the Cambodian capital, Phnom Penh, which is one of the global hubs for money launderers. In the coastal city of Sihanoukville, this scene is even more pronounced, as it is a notorious haven for fraudsters. Scammers conduct scam operations in call centers, which are often located in heavily guarded buildings or on the upper floors of unfinished skyscrapers. Meanwhile, at seaside restaurants, money launderers and other criminals enjoy spicy Chinese food while engaging in transactions.

New York Times: Unveiling the Cambodian Money Laundering Empire, the Secret Assembly Line Behind the Crypto Scam

In March of this year, outside the Golden Sun Sky Casino & Hotel in Sihanoukville, Cambodia, UK and US authorities have linked this casino to online scams and human trafficking.

We have obtained a batch of documents that can be considered a "money laundering manual." Additionally, we interviewed nearly six scammers and their money laundering accomplices. These documents do not point to a specific scam or victim but reveal an almost unstoppable method of illegal fund transfers.

From The New York Times

For criminals, the importance of money launderers is akin to the getaway driver in a bank heist. Without them, criminal proceeds would not be able to be cashed out.

Once a scammer successfully convinces a victim to hand over their savings, they need to swiftly move the funds from one account to another, from one country to another, in order to complete the operation before the victim realizes the scam and reports it to the bank or authorities.

Eventually, this money becomes "clean"—almost untraceable back to the original fraud.

So how is all of this done?

Following this trail, we unexpectedly find that it is connected to a financial giant in Cambodia called the "Huione Group."

This is not a workshop hidden in a back alley secretly "cleaning dirty money." The Huione Group is a well-known enterprise conducting legitimate business in Southeast Asia with branch offices in other parts of the world. Its QR code payment system is widespread in Cambodia, allowing consumers to pay their bills at hotels, restaurants, and supermarkets using it. Huione's advertisements line major highways, and its financial services span banking and insurance.

However, the Huione Group (Huione, pronounced "Hu-WAY-wahn") is composed of multiple affiliated companies, not all of which are legitimate. According to documents and two anonymous individuals with direct knowledge of their operations, part of the group's business provides customized money laundering services. These two informants requested anonymity out of concern for their safety. The company did not respond to any requests for comment regarding these allegations.

Another affiliated company openly operates an online black market that acts as a go-between for criminals and money launderers. While the exact scale of this market is nearly immeasurable, analytics company Elliptic has linked it to $26.8 billion in cryptocurrency transactions since 2021. Due to the extreme opacity of this industry, distinguishing between legal and illegal transactions is difficult, but Elliptic notes that this black market is one of the largest illicit internet markets globally.

It is worth noting that a cousin of the Cambodian Prime Minister, Hun To, is a director at a subsidiary of the Huione Group.

Research on the cryptocurrency transactions of Huione Group by a scammer, a money launderer, and analytics companies Elliptic and Chainalysis indicates that the group's clients include large criminal organizations, such as a syndicate in Myanmar that profits by exploiting human trafficking victims.

The Huione Group is composed of multiple affiliated companies, with one subsidiary, Huione Pay, headquartered in Phnom Penh, Cambodia.

However, this money laundering network has been able to operate with impunity. To date, the organization has never been the target of any government sanctions. Although the cryptocurrency company Tether has previously frozen some of the group's accounts at the request of an unspecified law enforcement agency, and the messaging app Telegram has also shut down some of its channels, these measures have not had a lasting impact.

Below is a detailed explanation of how it operates:

Imagine you are a fraudster who has scammed people out of their life savings. You need a way to transfer these funds out of various countries, which is where you need a "middleman."

The middleman is a trusted intermediary who can help you securely transfer the illicit funds to their destination. A top-notch middleman has a global network, with network members known as "money mules," who can complete fund transfers within hours.

A money mule can be an individual or a shell company that controls a local bank account or cryptocurrency wallet.

When you find a middleman, they will deposit the funds into an escrow account to ensure they do not abscond with the money during the transfer.

Now, you are ready to start your scam.

Assume you have successfully tricked someone into transferring $40,000 to you.

Step 1: As the scam ringleader, you agree with the middleman. In a U.S.-based scam, the middleman typically demands a 15% cut as their and the money mule's reward.

Step 2: The middleman finds a suitable money mule and arranges the transaction for you.

Step 3: The middleman sends you the money mule's bank account or cryptocurrency wallet information, which you then provide to the victim.

Step 4: The victim transfers $40,000 to the money mule's account.

Step 5: The money mule moves the funds between accounts, eventually converting them into cryptocurrency.

Step 6: Finally, the money mule takes a portion as a service fee and transfers the remaining amount to the middleman. The middleman, after deducting their own fee, then hands over the remaining $34,000 to you.

Through this process, the entire money laundering chain is completed, rendering the funds almost untraceable, allowing the scam to proceed smoothly.

“Brick-and-Mortar” Business

The Huione Group profits at every step of the process.

Firstly, one of its subsidiaries (until recently still known as Huione Guarantee) operates a marketplace where scammers can find middlemen. Middlemen are crucial in this system, their work is so mechanically repetitive that, according to anthropologist Yanyu Chen, who researched money laundering behavior in Cambodia, the Chinese refer to this behavior as “brick-and-mortar.”

This online marketplace consists of thousands of Telegram chat groups.

Some branches of Huione Pay also advertise currency exchange services, including conversions between Tether and USD.

In these Telegram channels, anonymous users openly post money laundering service ads in almost blatant language. These posts are public, visible to anyone with the Telegram app. Some vendors even sell stolen personal data, applications for impersonating others, and other crucial services for scammers.

One channel named “Demand and Supply” has over 400,000 users, with hundreds of messages daily, including ads for money laundering services. After we posed questions to the Huione Group and other relevant parties in late February, Telegram stated that it had removed that channel. However, a similar channel quickly emerged, attracting around 250,000 members within a week.

Huione Guarantee did not respond to multiple comment requests but denied any association with the financial group Huione Group. The company even rebranded last October, removing the “Huione” name. However, it informed customers on Telegram that Huione Group remains one of its “strategic partners and shareholders.”

Secondly, this marketplace platform provides escrow for money laundering transactions. Why? Because there is no honor among thieves here, and scammers will also deceive each other. To prove their credibility, middlemen and money mules need to pay a deposit to Huione Guarantee, which is held in escrow. This serves to reassure scammers that no one will run off with the funds (or if someone does, that person will lose their deposit).

The price of money laundering is determined by the type of crime from which the funds were obtained. For example, scams involving impersonation of government officials have a higher cost because victims are more likely to report to the authorities or notify the bank.

Geographical location also influences the price of money laundering. In China, the cost of money laundering can be as high as 60% of the illicit funds. This is because since 2020, China has intensified its financial control measures, conducted nationwide crackdowns, arrested thousands of individuals, and frozen significant amounts of funds.

China and Cambodia have entered into a cooperation agreement to jointly carry out law enforcement actions, resulting in the arrest of several criminals; however, those arrested are mostly low-level offenders. These measures have not had a substantial impact on the fraud and money laundering industry.

Although transactions by intermediaries are conducted in private, the group itself also profits. It earns money by selling advertisements in public groups, charging maintenance fees to private groups, and taking small commissions from transactions. Most transactions are denominated in Tether cryptocurrency, but some are also conducted in cash, gold, or bank transfers. (Even last year, this market issued its own cryptocurrency.)

In the disclaimer posted on its website and Telegram channel, the market denies any involvement in criminal activities. One post states: "All business in public groups is provided by third-party merchants and is not related to Huione Guarantee."

Thirdly, another subsidiary of the Huione Group, "Huione International Pay," is more directly involved in money laundering activities. According to internal company documents and two individuals familiar with its operations, Huione International Pay is itself an intermediary.

These documents and informants reveal that the operational efficiency of Huione International Pay is comparable to that of a legitimate professional bank. Its headquarters is located in a glass and concrete building in Phnom Penh, with two panda statues standing at the entrance.

According to two individuals familiar with its operations, Huione International Pay conducts its business within the group's headquarters in Phnom Penh.

One department within the company is specifically responsible for providing customer relationship services to scammers and other illegal actors, another department monitors Telegram channels, and yet another department tracks money mule accounts spread across at least a dozen countries, based on internal documents we have reviewed.

The companies under Huione operate in countries where regulation is extremely lax or virtually non-existent, wearing a "cloak of legitimacy." John Wojcik, a threat analyst at the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime (UNODC), stated that the complex and opaque ownership structure of the Huione Group poses challenges for targeted law enforcement actions.

However, he also pointed out that even if [汇旺] were to be shut down, other operators would quickly take its place.

"We have seen competitors actively preparing," Voychak said.

The National Bank of Cambodia, the department responsible for regulating financial institutions, stated that the government is committed to ensuring the "security and transparency of financial transactions." At the same time, the government is striving to comply with relevant international anti-money laundering recommendations.

The central bank also stated that as [汇旺]'s payment service (a QR code-based payment system) failed to meet renewal requirements, its related license in Cambodia was not renewed. In response, [汇旺] promptly announced plans to register its operations in Japan and Canada.

Tracking Money Mules

Money mules are individuals responsible for operating bank accounts and digital wallets.

According to Elad Fouks, an expert from Chainalysis, which monitors on-chain fraud, some money mules open bank accounts using fake identities, with advances in artificial intelligence making identity fraud easier.

Money mules spread deposits and withdrawals to reduce the risk of attracting attention from banks. For example, transactions under $10,000 are usually not easily noticed. Accounts and virtual wallets used for money laundering are mostly active for only a few weeks or months.

However, the highest risk is not posed by intermediaries or fraudsters, but by these money mules. They are the most likely to be caught.

A U.S. court case revealed the specific mechanism of this operation. The main defendant in the case, Daren Li, ran a money mule network, registering 74 U.S. shell companies to launder nearly $80 million. These companies opened accounts at U.S. institutions such as Bank of America. When victims transferred funds to these accounts, the funds were quickly moved to a bank in the Bahamas. Subsequently, the funds were used to purchase Tether cryptocurrency held on the Binance exchange.

Within a few days, these funds were transferred to another virtual wallet.

Based on our review of records, Daren Li was involved in money laundering activities in collaboration with [汇旺] International Payment. However, the FBI and Secret Service both declined to confirm this association. Daren Li pleaded guilty to conspiracy to commit money laundering last November.

Payday

Once again, imagine that you are the leader of a fraud ring. Something has gone wrong: your money mule has been arrested; his bank account has been frozen; or he may have absconded with the funds.

In these cases, your middleman would intervene to mediate the dispute.

If it was the money mule's fault, the middleman would help you retrieve the deposit from the escrow account and return it to you. If no one is held accountable, these losses would be considered part of the cost of doing business.

But if everything goes smoothly, you will experience "payday," usually paid out in Tether. You can then convert these Tethers to USD through a casino or Hawala payment company.

UK authorities have stated that a building near the Golden Sun Sky Casino & Hotel in Sihanoukville once housed a large-scale fraud operation.

You can use these funds to pay your employees' salaries.

Today, fraud operations mimic the operational model of professional organizations, with departments for marketing, sales, and human resources, employing thousands of people. Often, many employees are actually victims of human trafficking who are forced to carry out fraud against distant targets. Some fraud organizations even mimic a 19th-century company town model, only paying wages to employees after the completion of a work season. Until then, employees can only spend on the company credit line.

These wages in turn fuel restaurants, casinos, and brothels in the enclosed areas where fraudsters operate, with these establishments profiting heavily from the restricted freedom of the employees.

Additionally, the fraudsters' payroll includes some attractive models who are hired to engage in video calls to deceive victims into giving money. Some of these models even use deepfake AI technology.

Like everyone else, fraudsters also need to pay rent—not just for living but for "protection" as well.

Furthermore, behind-the-scenes services of fraud require payments, and many services can be purchased through Hawala's "marketplace." Fraudsters pay software developers to create websites mimicking investment platforms. They need internet and computer infrastructure. They also pay thieves to steal potential victims' personal data: including national ID numbers, credit card information, location data, and even detailed records of prior hotel stays.

Some of the funds flow to luxury car dealerships, while some funds are used to purchase real estate in locations like London and Dubai.

Of course, some of the funds will also be used to purchase fireworks.

Original Article Link

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今年 2 月,Base 生態中的 AI 協議 Virtuals 宣布跨鏈至 Solana,然而加密市場隨後進入流動性緊縮期,AI Agent 板塊從人聲鼎沸轉為低迷,Virtuals 生態也陷入一段蟄伏期。


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兩個月過去,AI Agent 板塊重新升溫,Virtuals 代幣反彈超 150%,Genesis 機製成為帶動生態回暖的重要觸發器。從積分獲取規則的動態調整,到專案參與熱度的持續上升,再到「新代幣帶老代幣」的機制閉環,Virtuals 逐漸走出寒冬,並再次站上討論焦點。



值得注意的是,Virtuals 的 Genesis 機制與近期 Binance 推出的 Alpha 積分系統有一些相似之處,評估用戶在 Alpha 和幣安錢包生態系統內的參與度,決定用戶 Alpha 代幣空投的資格。用戶可透過持倉、交易等方式獲得積分,積分越高,參與新項目的機會越大。透過積分系統篩選使用者、分配資源,專案方能夠更有效地激勵社群參與,提升專案的公平性和透明度。 Virtuals 和 Binance 的探索,或許預示著加密融資的新趨勢正在形成。


回看這次對話,empty 在專訪中所展現出的思路與判斷,正在一步步顯現其前瞻性,這不僅是一場圍繞打新機制的訪談,更是一次關於“資產驅動型 AI 協議”的路徑構建與底層邏輯的深度討論。


從「產品」到「平台」:AI Agent 的華爾街式基礎設施


BlockBeats:可以簡單分享一下最近團隊主要在忙些什麼?
empty:目前我們的工作重點主要有兩個部分。第一部分,我們希望將 Virtuals 打造成一個類似「華爾街」的代理人(Agent)服務平台。設想一下,如果你是專注於 Agent 或 Agent 團隊建立的創業者,從融資、發幣到流動性退出,整個流程都需要係統性的支援。我們希望為真正專注於 Agent 和 AI 研發的團隊,提供這一整套服務體系,讓他們可以把精力集中在底層能力的開發上,而不用為其他環節分心。這一塊的工作其實也包括了與散戶買賣相關的內容,後面可以再詳細展開。


第二部分,我們正在深入推進 AI 相關的佈局。我們的願景是建立一個 AI 社會,希望每個 Agent 都能聚焦自身優勢,同時透過彼此之間的協作,實現更大的價值。因此,最近我們發布了一個新的標準——ACP(Agent Communication Protocol),目的是讓不同的 Agent 能夠相互互動、協作,共同推動各自的業務目標。這是目前我們主要在推進的兩大方向。



BlockBeats:可以再展開說說嗎?

empty:在我看來,其實我們面對的客戶群可以分為三類:第一類是專注於開發 Agent 的團隊;第二類是投資者,包括散戶、基金等各種投資機構;第三類則是 C 端用戶,也就是最終使用 Agent 產品的個人用戶。


不過,我們主要的精力其實是放在前兩大類──也就是團隊和投資人。對於 C 端用戶這一塊,我們並不打算直接介入,而是希望各個 Agent 團隊能夠自己解決 C 端市場的拓展問題。


此外,我們也認為,Agent 與 Agent 之間的交互作用應該成為一個核心模式。簡單來說,就是未來的服務更多應該是由一個 Agent 銷售或提供給另一個 Agent,而不是單純賣給人類使用者。因此,在團隊的 BD 工作中,我們也積極幫助現有的 AI 團隊尋找這樣的客戶和合作機會。


BlockBeats:大概有一些什麼具體案例呢?


empty:「華爾街」說白了就是圍繞資本運作體系的建設,假設你是一個技術團隊,想要融資,傳統路徑是去找 VC 募資,拿到資金後開始發展。如果專案做得不錯,接下來可能會考慮進入二級市場,例如在紐約證券交易所上市,或是在 Binance 這樣的交易所上幣,實現流動性退出。


我們希望把這一整套流程打通-從早期融資,到專案開發過程中對資金的靈活使用需求,再到最終二級市場的流動性退出,全部覆蓋和完善,這是我們希望補齊的一條完整鏈條。


而這一部分的工作和 ACP(Agent Communication Protocol)是不同的,ACP 更多是關於 Agent 與 Agent 之間交互標準的製定,不直接涉及資本運作系統。


BlockBeats:它和現在 Virtuals 的這個 Launchpad 有什麼差別呢?資金也是從 C 端來是嗎?


empty:其實現在你在 Virtuals 上發幣,如果沒有真正融到資金,那就只是發了一個幣而已,實際是融不到錢的。我們目前能提供的服務,是透過設定買賣時的交易稅機制,從中提取一部分稅收回饋給創業者,希望這部分能成為他們的現金流來源。


不過,問題其實還分成兩塊。第一是如何真正幫助團隊完成融資,這個問題目前我們還沒有徹底解決。第二是關於目前專案發行模式本身存在的結構性問題。簡單來說,現在的版本有點像過去 Pumpfun 那種模式——也就是當專案剛上線時,部分籌碼就被外賣給了外部投資人。但現實是,目前整個市場上存在著太多機構集團和「狙擊手」。


當一個真正優秀的專案一發幣,還沒真正觸達普通散戶,就已經被機構在極高估值時搶購了。等到散戶能夠接觸到時,往往價格已經偏高,專案品質也可能變差,整個價值發行體係被扭曲。


針對這個問題,我們希望探索一種新的發幣和融資模式,目的是讓專案方的籌碼既不是死死握在自己手裡,也不是優先流向英文圈的大機構,而是能夠真正留給那些相信專案、願意長期支持專案的普通投資者手中。我們正在思考該如何設計這樣一個新的發行機制,來解決這個根本問題。


BlockBeats:新模式的具體想法會是什麼樣子呢?


empty:關於資金這一塊,其實我們目前還沒有完全想透。現階段來看,最直接的方式還是去找 VC 融資,或是採取公開預售等形式進行資金募集。不過說實話,我個人對傳統的公開預售模式並不是特別認同。


在「公平發售」這件事上,我們正在嘗試換一個角度來思考-希望能從「reputation」出發,重新設計機制。


具體來說,就是如果你對整個 Virtuals 生態有貢獻,例如早期參與、提供支持或建設,那麼你就可以在後續購買優質代幣時享有更高的優先權。透過這種方式,我們希望把資源更多留給真正支持生態發展的用戶,而不是由短期套利的人主導。


如何從交易稅中「自養」團隊


BlockBeats:您會不會考慮採用類似之前 Fjord Foundry 推出的 LBP 模式,或者像 Daos.fun 那種採用白名單機制的模式。這些模式在某種程度上,和您剛才提到的「對生態有貢獻的人享有優先權」的想法是有些相似的。不過,這類做法後來也引發了一些爭議,例如白名單內部操作、分配不公等問題。 Virtuals 在設計時會考慮借鏡這些模式的優點,或有針對性地規避類似的問題嗎?


empty:我認為白名單機制最大的問題在於,白名單的選擇權掌握在專案方手中。這和「老鼠倉」行為非常相似。專案方可以選擇將白名單名額分配給自己人或身邊的朋友,導致最終的籌碼仍然掌握在少數人手中。


我們希望做的,依然是類似白名單的機制,但不同的是,白名單的獲取權應基於一個公開透明的規則體系,而不是由項目方單方面決定。只有這樣,才能真正做到公平分配,避免內幕操作的問題。


我認為在今天這個 AI 時代,很多時候創業並不需要大量資金。我常跟團隊強調,你們應該優先考慮自力更生,例如透過組成社區,而不是一開始就想著去融資。因為一旦融資,實際上就等於背負了負債。


我們更希望從 Training Fee的角度去看待早期發展路徑。也就是說,專案可以選擇直接發幣,透過交易稅所帶來的現金流,支持日常營運。這樣一來,專案可以在公開建設的過程中獲得初步資金,而不是依賴外部投資。如果專案做大了,自然也會有機會透過二級市場流動性退出。


當然最理想的情況是,專案本身能夠有穩定的現金流來源,這樣甚至連自己的幣都無需拋售,這才是真正健康可持續的狀態。


我自己也常在和團隊交流時分享這種思路,很有意思的是,那些真正抱著「搞快錢」心態的項目,一聽到這種機制就失去了興趣。他們會覺得,在這種模式下,既無法操作老鼠倉,也很難短期套利,於是很快就選擇離開。


但從我們的角度來看,這其實反而是個很好的篩選機制。透過這種方式,理念不同的專案自然會被過濾出去,最後留下的,都是那些願意真正建立、和我們價值觀契合的團隊,一起把事情做起來。


BlockBeats:這個理念可以發展出一些能夠創造收益的 AI agent。


empty:我覺得這是很有必要的。坦白說,放眼今天的市場,真正擁有穩定現金流的產品幾乎鳳毛麟角,但我認為這並不意味著我們應該停止嘗試。事實上,我們每天在對接的團隊中,有至少一半以上的人依然懷抱著長遠的願景。很多時候,他們甚至已經提前向我們提供了 VC 階段的資金支持,或表達了強烈的合作意願。


其實對他們來說想要去收穫一個很好的社區,因為社區可以給他們的產品做更好的回饋,這才是他們真正的目的。這樣聽起來有一點匪夷所思,但其實真的有很多這樣的團隊,而那種團隊的是我們真的想扶持的團隊。


AI Agent 該賣給誰?


BlockBeats:您剛才提到的這套「AI 華爾街」的產品體系-從融資、發行到退出,建構的是一整套完整的流程。這套機制是否更多是為了激勵那些有意願發幣的團隊?還是說,它在設計上也考慮瞭如何更好地支持那些希望透過產品本身的現金流來發展的團隊?這兩類團隊在您這套體系中會不會被區別對待,或者說有什麼機制設計能讓不同路徑的創業者都能被合理支持?


empty:是的,我們 BD 的核心職責其實就是去鼓勵團隊發幣。說得直接一點,就是引導他們思考發幣的可能性和意義。所以團隊最常問的問題就是:「為什麼要發幣?」這時我們需要採取不同的方式和角度,去幫助他們理解背後的價值邏輯。當然如果最終判斷不適合,我們也不會強迫他們推進。


不過我們觀察到一個非常明顯的趨勢,傳統的融資路徑已經越來越難走通了。過去那種融資做大,發幣上所的模式已經逐漸失效。面對這樣的現實,很多團隊都陷入了尷尬的境地。而我們希望能從鏈上和加密的視角,提供一套不同的解決方案,讓他們找到新的發展路徑。


BlockBeats:明白,我剛才其實想表達的是,您剛剛也提到,傳統的 AI 模式在很大程度上仍然依賴「燒錢」競爭。但在 DeepSeek 出現之後,市場上一些資金體積較小的團隊或投資人開始重新燃起了信心,躍躍欲試地進入這個領域。您怎麼看待這種現象?這會不會對目前正在做 AI 基礎研發,或是 AI 應用層開發的團隊產生一定的影響?


empty:對,我覺得先不談 DeepSeek,從傳統角度來看,其實到目前為止,AI 領域真正賺錢的只有英偉達,其他幾乎所有玩家都還沒有實現盈利。所以其實沒有人真正享受了這個商業模式的成果,大家也仍在探索如何面對 C 端打造真正有產出的應用。


沒有哪個領域像幣圈一樣能如此快速獲得社群回饋。你一發幣,用戶就會主動去讀白皮書的每一個字,試試你產品的每個功能。


當然,這套機制並不適合所有人。例如有些 Agent 產品偏 Web2,對於幣圈用戶而言,可能感知不到其價值。因此,我也會鼓勵做 Agent 的團隊在 Virtuals 生態中認真思考,如何真正將 Crypto 作為自身產品的差異化要素加以運用與設計。


BlockBeats:這點我特別認同,在 Crypto 這個領域 AI 的迭代速度確實非常快,但這群用戶給予的回饋,真的是代表真實的市場需求嗎?或者說這些回饋是否真的符合更大眾化、更具規模性的需求?


empty:我覺得很多時候產品本身不應該是強行推廣給不適合的使用者群體。例如 AIXBT 最成功的一點就在於,它的用戶本身就是那群炒作他人內容的人,所以他們的使用行為是非常自然的,並不覺得是在被迫使用一個無聊的產品。 mass adoption 這個概念已經講了很多年,大家可能早就該放棄這個執念了。我們不如就認了,把東西賣給幣圈的人就好了。


BlockBeats:AI Agent 與 AI Agent 所對應的代幣之間,究竟應該是什麼樣的動態關係?


empty:對,我覺得這裡可以分成兩個核心點。首先其實不是在投資某個具體的 AI Agent,而是在投資背後經營這個 Agent 的團隊。你應該把它理解為一種更接近創投的思路:你投的是這個人,而不是他目前正在做的產品。因為產品本身是可以快速變化的,可能一個月後團隊會發現方向不對,立即調整。所以,這裡的「幣」本質上代表的是對團隊的信任,而不是某個特定 Agent 本身。


第二則是期望一旦某個 Agent 產品做出來後,未來它能真正產生現金流,或者有實際的使用場景(utility),從而讓對應的代幣具備賦能效應。


BlockBeats:您覺得有哪些賦能方式是目前還沒看到的,但未來可能出現、值得期待的?


empty:其實主要有兩塊,第一是比較常見的那種你要使用我的產品,就必須付費,或者使用代幣支付,從而間接實現對代幣的「軟銷毀」或消耗。


但我覺得更有趣的賦能方式,其實是在獲客成本的角度思考。也就是說,你希望你的用戶同時也是你的投資者,這樣他們就有動機去主動幫你推廣、吸引更多用戶。


開源≠賦能,開發者≠社群


BlockBeats:那基於這些觀點,您怎麼看 ai16z,在專案設計和代幣機制方面,似乎整體表現並不太樂觀?


empty:從一個很純粹的投資角度來看,撇開我們與他們之間的關係,其實很簡單。他們現在做的事情,對代幣本身沒有任何賦能。從開源的角度來看,一個開源模型本身是無法直接賦能代幣的。


但它仍然有價值的原因在於,它像一個期權(call option),也就是說,如果有一天他們突然決定要做一些事情,比如推出一個 launchpad,那麼那些提前知道、提前參與的人,可能會因此受益。


開發者未來確實有可能會使用他們的 Launchpad,只有在那一刻,代幣才會真正產生賦能。這是目前最大的一個問號——如果這個模式真的跑得通,我認為確實會非常強大,因為他們的確觸達了大量開發者。


但我個人還是有很多疑問。例如即使我是使用 Eliza 的開發者,也不代表我一定會選擇在他們的 Launchpad 上發幣。我會貨比三家,會比較。而且,做一個 Launchpad 和做一個開源框架,所需的產品能力和社群運作能力是完全不同的,這是另一個重要的不確定性。


BlockBeats:這種不同是體現在什麼地方呢?


empty:在 Virtuals 上我們幾乎每天都在處理客服相關的問題,只要有任何一個團隊在我們平台上發生 rug,即使與我們沒有直接關係,用戶也會第一時間來找我們投訴。


這時我們就必須出面安撫用戶,並思考如何降低 rug 的整體風險。一旦有團隊因為自己的代幣設計錯誤或技術失誤而被駭客攻擊、資產被盜,我們往往需要自掏腰包,確保他們的社群至少能拿回一點資金,以便專案能夠重新開始。這些項目方可能在技術上很強,但未必擅長代幣發行,結果因操作失誤被攻擊導致資產損失。只要涉及「被欺騙」相關的問題,對我們來說就已經是非常麻煩的事了,做這些工作跟做交易所的客服沒有太大差別。


另一方面,做 BD 也非常困難。優秀的團隊手上有很多選擇,他們可以選擇在 Pumpfun 或交易所上發幣,為什麼他們要來找我們,那這背後必須要有一整套支援體系,包括融資支援、技術協助、市場推廣等,每個環節都不能出問題。


BlockBeats:那我們就繼續沿著這個話題聊聊 Virtuals 目前的 Launchpad 業務。有一些社群成員在 Twitter 上統計了 Virtuals Launchpad 的整體獲利狀況,確實目前看起來獲利的項目比較少。接下來 Launchpad 還會是 Virtuals 的主要業務區嗎?還是說,未來的重心會逐漸轉向您剛才提到的「AI 華爾街」這條路徑?


empty:其實這兩塊本質上是一件事,是一整套體系的一部分,所以我們必須繼續推進。市場的波動是很正常的,我們始終要堅持的一點是:非常清楚地認識到我們的核心客戶是誰。我一直強調我們的客戶只有兩類——團隊。所以市場行情的好壞對我們來說並不是最重要的,關鍵是在每一個關鍵節點上,對於一個團隊來說,發幣的最佳選擇是否依然是我們 Virtuals。


BlockBeats:您會不會擔心「Crypto + AI」或「Crypto AI Agent」這一類敘事已經過去了?如果未來還有一輪多頭市場,您是否認為市場炒作的焦點可能已經不再是這些方向了?


empty:有可能啊,我覺得 it is what it is,這確實是有可能發生的,但這也屬於我們無法控制的範圍。不過如果你問我,在所有可能的趨勢中,哪個賽道更有機會長期保持領先,我仍然認為是 AI。從一個打德撲的角度來看,它仍然是最優選擇。


而且我們團隊的技術架構和底層能力其實早已搭建完成了,現在只是順勢而為而已。更重要的是,我們本身真的熱愛這件事,帶著好奇心去做這件事。每天早上醒來就有驅動力去研究最新的技術,這種狀態本身就挺讓人滿足的,對吧?


很多時候,大家不應該只看產品本身。實際上很多優秀的團隊,他們的基因決定了他們有在規則中勝出的能力——他們可能過去在做派盤交易時,每筆規模就是上百萬的操作,而這些團隊的 CEO,一年的薪資可能就有 100 萬美金。如果他們願意出來單幹項目,從天使投資或 VC 的視角來看,這本質上是用一個很划算的價格買到一個高品質的團隊。


更何況這些資產是 liquid 的,不是鎖倉狀態。如果你當下不急著用錢,完全可以在早期階段買進一些優秀團隊的代幣,靜靜等待他們去創造一些奇蹟,基本上就是這樣一個邏輯。

a16z領投2500萬美元,0xMiden要在你手機裡跑一條隱私鏈

從擴展性到合規性,這個「邊緣區塊鏈」計畫憑什麼贏得一線資本押注

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